--- On Wed, 6/25/08, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> > Subject: [epistemology 8841] Re: FACT SHOCKING BUT TRUE > To: "Epistemology" <epistemology@googlegroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 9:29 PM > A more shocking fact that I learned from a Jew, was that > before > yahoowahoo, there was the "Elohim", always > referred to in the plural, > the gods that preceeded the "one and only" > Jahovah or yahoo. This was, > he said, clear testament to the polytheism of the Jewish > people before > the adoption and modification of the first recorded > monotheism of > Egypt, Amun Aten.
======================= G: There is a Jewish saying "Nothing is stupider than a stupid Jew". You had the misfortune to bump into one and, what's worse, to take him seriously. I'll trash his idiocies and comment your conclusions, all wrong, but pointing to thrilling issues. Let's take it detail by detail.
-yahoowahoo, There ain't no sich animal. Your stupid Jew probably meant(?) Yahve, which would be anyway totally displaced in this context (see below).
-Elohim. It's NOT semantic plural but "pseudo-plural", a syntactic relic of old etymology which evolved into semantic singular, BTW similar to Hebrew "Mitzraim" for "Egypt".
All languages encompass many such constructs: "Physics" IS and not ARE. Same for "château", which integrates several "castels", "chastels", "châtels" into the large fortified structure of "château". Similarly and clearly "Elohim" IS (name of) the unique God of Genesis and of Abraham. Its syntactic plural recalls the bygone pagan prehistory, replaced by the monotheism of the unique PSEUDO-plural Elohim of the tribes of Israel. It was an intuitive monotheism of illiterate nomads, lacking any highbrow intellection, but endowed with acute emotional sensibility of the desert and its skies. It's doubtless the first monotheism ever registered, preceding by over thousand years that, highly philosophical, of Akhenaton (see below).
-"Amun Aten" is a complete muddle. Amon was the principal of innumerable Egyptian Gods and his priests dominated Egypt from their Karnak temple. Aton was the Sun God venerated by the rare but most scientific priesthood of Heliopolis. Egyptian Akhenaton's monotheism inthronized Aton-Sun as (symbol of) the unique God and abolished the cult of Amon, along with other polytheistic Gods. Thus Amon and Aton were implacable enemies and symbols of diametrically opposed views and attitudes.
Following comments are mainly anchored in Freud's "The man Moses and the monotheistic religion", but occasionally go beyond it.
At Moses time, Israelites were considered in Egypt as tough desert warriors and were assigned to protect the rugged Nubian frontier. They brought to Egypt their intuitive monotheism which did not radiate beyond their own collectivity.
Moses (Egyptian for "man" found in Ra-Mses - Man of Ra, Tut-Mosis - Man of Toth) was an Egyptian nobleman, a bastard of a royal princess brought up as Pharaoh's courtier to become a tough warrior.
The current Pharaoh crowned as Amenhotep IV (Glory of Amon) turned away from polytheism and from the cult of Amon, embracing and imposing the cult of the unique God Aton symbolized by the sun. He changed his name to Akhenaton (Glory of Aton), ordered the desttruction of Amon temples and the construction of the new capital, the Akhetaten ('Horizon of Aton'), at the site known today as Amarna. One refers sometimes to the short Atonian domination as to the "Amarna period". We know the impact of our Renaissance which shattered the stilted Middle Age conventions in favor of human suppleness. Now, while our MA conventions were fixed during a few hundred years, the Egyptian lasted several thousand and the ideological break was incomparably deeper. Although it lasted ony a few decades, it was IMO the deepest Renaissance-type revolution in the history.
Amarna was not only religion. In the cruel, tyrannic world it preached the rule of Love. "Aton is Love and we cherish Him by loving all and sundry". Loving in equality: "Aton's rays bless the last of slaves and the king alike". And this deepest Renaissance sparked an unequalled outburst of art. No wonder that Aton adherents were committed to Him with their lives. The leading one was Moses.
After a few decades Amarna succumbed under the devastating genocidal blows of Amon's reaction embodied by the army of Horemheb who inthronized the child Tutankhamon, (Living Image of Amon), in anticipation of becoming himself the Pharaoh.
Moses assisted by a handful of noblemen true to Akhenaton's testament decided to save Aton's monotheism at the head of likewise monotheistic Israelite warriors yearning for exody of Egypt towards their homeland.
First steps of this Exodus led through Midian, where Moses had a staunch ally, his father-in-law Yethro, the head of Midian and the chief priest of Midian's deity named Yahve. Yahve was a martial and cruel God of volcanoes commanding the laws of vengeance, "tooth for tooth", "eye for eye". Yethro assisted Moses in submitting disordered Israelites to Yahve's laws and in improving his miltary tactics. Yahve got incorporated in the Israelite cult. Not as another God - they were and stayed monotheist -, but as another aspect of the unique God. Elohim's Genesis- Creator's aspect got completed with Yahve's aspect of Justice. Let's say en passant that orthodox Jews refuse to admit that their "Yahve" was formed upon a crude pagan deity and endeavor to interpret Him as an acronym abbreviating some very mysterious concepts. Yet, whatever their verbal contortions, the fact remains that "Yahve" is an import from the crude Midian cult.
But what about Aton, the active cause of Exodus? He has been incorporated later, after the Hebrews have reached the Promised Land, when Yahve's martial law could be released. His inclusion gave the final touch to the Jewishness. Before considering His ideological bestowal, we shall shortly recall the linguistic transformations of the Egyptian "Aton" into its Hebrew versions.
The voiceless "t" of Aton slipped into the voiced "d" and Aton in its new garb of "Adon" became a current term of vernacular and hieratic Hebrew with its three most common inflections:
1.Adon - mister or sir, 2.Adoni - (short od "adon shel li" - my mister/sir) vocative (Dear)Sir, 3.Adonai - (archaic and hieratic pseudo-plural of Adoni, reserved for God) - My Lord.
Similarity of Akhenaton's Great Hymn to Aton and Salomon's Hymn to Adonai, preserved as Psalm 104, manifests on the one hand Aton's being the bedrock of Adonai and, on the other hand their shared nature of Love.
We are now in a position to bring up the essential aspects of the Jewish God with the names symbolizing them:
BTW, one can hardly avid noticing the analogy of these three aspects of the Jewish God with the Christian Trinity:
Elohim - Creativeness - the Father, Yahve - Justice - the Spirit, Adonai - Love - the Son.
On the face of it it seems that Christianity had the chance to become a renewed Jewishness, a humane ideology of Creativeness, of Justice and of Love. Yet, it forfeited it and became instead one of the most inhumane ideologies of ravage, of injustice and of hatred. I endeavor to explain the reasons thereof in "SON 0F MAN Fraudulent bedrock of our civilization"
Thank you Georges. This is the kind of Answer that we were expecting
from you.
Criticising, full of knowledge, Georgeful !
Is it important to mention that every representation or historic fact
about that "Amarna period" was destroyed or hidden right after the
murder of Tuth-ankh-amun, who was said to be originally Tuth-ankh-
atun.
This "accidental death" of an 18 years old Pharao marked the return to
polytheism.
May be we shall forget that "Yahoo stuff".
On Jun 29, 7:10 pm, Georges Metanomski <zg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From: chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [epistemology 8841] Re: FACT SHOCKING BUT TRUE
> > To: "Epistemology" <epistemology@googlegroups.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 9:29 PM
> > A more shocking fact that I learned from a Jew, was that
> > before
> > yahoowahoo, there was the "Elohim", always
> > referred to in the plural,
> > the gods that preceeded the "one and only"
> > Jahovah or yahoo. This was,
> > he said, clear testament to the polytheism of the Jewish
> > people before
> > the adoption and modification of the first recorded
> > monotheism of
> > Egypt, Amun Aten.
> =======================
> G:
> There is a Jewish saying "Nothing is stupider than a
> stupid Jew". You had the misfortune to bump into one
> and, what's worse, to take him seriously. I'll trash
> his idiocies and comment your conclusions, all wrong,
> but pointing to thrilling issues. Let's take it detail
> by detail.
> -yahoowahoo, There ain't no sich animal. Your stupid
> Jew probably meant(?) Yahve, which would be anyway
> totally displaced in this context (see below).
> -Elohim. It's NOT semantic plural but "pseudo-plural",
> a syntactic relic of old etymology which evolved into
> semantic singular, BTW similar to Hebrew "Mitzraim"
> for "Egypt".
> All languages encompass many such constructs:
> "Physics" IS and not ARE. Same for "château", which
> integrates several "castels", "chastels", "châtels"
> into the large fortified structure of "château".
> Similarly and clearly "Elohim" IS (name of) the unique
> God of Genesis and of Abraham.
> Its syntactic plural recalls the bygone pagan
> prehistory, replaced by the monotheism of the unique
> PSEUDO-plural Elohim of the tribes of Israel. It was
> an intuitive monotheism of illiterate nomads, lacking
> any highbrow intellection, but endowed with acute
> emotional sensibility of the desert and its skies.
> It's doubtless the first monotheism ever registered,
> preceding by over thousand years that, highly
> philosophical, of Akhenaton (see below).
> -"Amun Aten" is a complete muddle. Amon was the
> principal of innumerable Egyptian Gods and his priests
> dominated Egypt from their Karnak temple. Aton was the
> Sun God venerated by the rare but most scientific
> priesthood of Heliopolis. Egyptian Akhenaton's
> monotheism inthronized Aton-Sun as (symbol of) the
> unique God and abolished the cult of Amon, along with
> other polytheistic Gods. Thus Amon and Aton were
> implacable enemies and symbols of diametrically
> opposed views and attitudes.
> Following comments are mainly anchored in Freud's
> "The man Moses and the monotheistic religion", but
> occasionally go beyond it.
> At Moses time, Israelites were considered in Egypt as
> tough desert warriors and were assigned to protect the
> rugged Nubian frontier. They brought to Egypt their
> intuitive monotheism which did not radiate beyond
> their own collectivity.
> Moses (Egyptian for "man" found in Ra-Mses - Man of Ra,
> Tut-Mosis - Man of Toth) was an Egyptian nobleman, a
> bastard of a royal princess brought up as Pharaoh's
> courtier to become a tough warrior.
> The current Pharaoh crowned as Amenhotep IV (Glory of
> Amon) turned away from polytheism and from the cult of
> Amon, embracing and imposing the cult of the unique
> God Aton symbolized by the sun. He changed his name to
> Akhenaton (Glory of Aton), ordered the desttruction
> of Amon temples and the construction of the new
> capital, the Akhetaten ('Horizon of Aton'), at the
> site known today as Amarna. One refers sometimes to
> the short Atonian domination as to the "Amarna period".
> We know the impact of our Renaissance which shattered
> the stilted Middle Age conventions in favor of human
> suppleness. Now, while our MA conventions were fixed
> during a few hundred years, the Egyptian lasted
> several thousand and the ideological break was
> incomparably deeper. Although it lasted ony a few
> decades, it was IMO the deepest Renaissance-type
> revolution in the history.
> Amarna was not only religion. In the cruel, tyrannic
> world it preached the rule of Love. "Aton is Love and
> we cherish Him by loving all and sundry". Loving in
> equality: "Aton's rays bless the last of slaves and
> the king alike". And this deepest Renaissance sparked
> an unequalled outburst of art. No wonder that Aton
> adherents were committed to Him with their lives.
> The leading one was Moses.
> After a few decades Amarna succumbed under the
> devastating genocidal blows of Amon's reaction
> embodied by the army of Horemheb who inthronized the
> child Tutankhamon, (Living Image of Amon), in
> anticipation of becoming himself the Pharaoh.
> Moses assisted by a handful of noblemen true to
> Akhenaton's testament decided to save Aton's
> monotheism at the head of likewise monotheistic
> Israelite warriors yearning for exody of Egypt towards
> their homeland.
> First steps of this Exodus led through Midian, where
> Moses had a staunch ally, his father-in-law Yethro,
> the head of Midian and the chief priest of Midian's
> deity named Yahve. Yahve was a martial and cruel God
> of volcanoes commanding the laws of vengeance, "tooth
> for tooth", "eye for eye". Yethro assisted Moses in
> submitting disordered Israelites to Yahve's laws and
> in improving his miltary tactics.
> Yahve got incorporated in the Israelite cult. Not as
> another God - they were and stayed monotheist -, but
> as another aspect of the unique God. Elohim's Genesis-
> Creator's aspect got completed with Yahve's aspect of
> Justice. Let's say en passant that orthodox Jews
> refuse to admit that their "Yahve" was formed upon a
> crude pagan deity and endeavor to interpret Him as an
> acronym abbreviating some very mysterious concepts.
> Yet, whatever their verbal contortions, the fact
> remains that "Yahve" is an import from the crude
> Midian cult.
> But what about Aton, the active cause of Exodus? He
> has been incorporated later, after the Hebrews have
> reached the Promised Land, when Yahve's martial law
> could be released. His inclusion gave the final touch
> to the Jewishness. Before considering His ideological
> bestowal, we shall shortly recall the linguistic
> transformations of the Egyptian "Aton" into its Hebrew
> versions.
> The voiceless "t" of Aton slipped into the voiced "d"
> and Aton in its new garb of "Adon" became a current
> term of vernacular and hieratic Hebrew with its three
> most common inflections:
> 1.Adon - mister or sir,
> 2.Adoni - (short od "adon shel li" - my mister/sir)
> vocative (Dear)Sir,
> 3.Adonai - (archaic and hieratic pseudo-plural of Adoni,
> reserved for God) - My Lord.
> Similarity of Akhenaton's Great Hymn to Aton and
> Salomon's Hymn to Adonai, preserved as Psalm 104,
> manifests on the one hand Aton's being the bedrock of
> Adonai and, on the other hand their shared nature of
> Love.
> We are now in a position to bring up the essential
> aspects of the Jewish God with the names symbolizing
> them:
> BTW, one can hardly avid noticing the analogy of these
> three aspects of the Jewish God with the Christian
> Trinity:
> Elohim - Creativeness - the Father,
> Yahve - Justice - the Spirit,
> Adonai - Love - the Son.
> On the face of it it seems that Christianity had the
> chance to become a renewed Jewishness, a humane
> ideology of Creativeness, of Justice and of Love.
> Yet, it forfeited it and became instead one of the
> most inhumane ideologies of ravage, of injustice and
> of hatred. I endeavor to explain the reasons thereof
> in
> "SON 0F MAN Fraudulent bedrock of our civilization"
Oh interesting.
But thank fuck Christianity did not completely model itself on
Judaism. Christianity is violent and bigoted enough without that kind
of exclusive, aggressive, racist crap eh?
On Jun 29, 8:10 pm, Georges Metanomski <zg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From: chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [epistemology 8841] Re: FACT SHOCKING BUT TRUE
> > To: "Epistemology" <epistemology@googlegroups.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 9:29 PM
> > A more shocking fact that I learned from a Jew, was that
> > before
> > yahoowahoo, there was the "Elohim", always
> > referred to in the plural,
> > the gods that preceeded the "one and only"
> > Jahovah or yahoo. This was,
> > he said, clear testament to the polytheism of the Jewish
> > people before
> > the adoption and modification of the first recorded
> > monotheism of
> > Egypt, Amun Aten.
> =======================
> G:
> There is a Jewish saying "Nothing is stupider than a
> stupid Jew". You had the misfortune to bump into one
> and, what's worse, to take him seriously. I'll trash
> his idiocies and comment your conclusions, all wrong,
> but pointing to thrilling issues. Let's take it detail
> by detail.
> -yahoowahoo, There ain't no sich animal. Your stupid
> Jew probably meant(?) Yahve, which would be anyway
> totally displaced in this context (see below).
> -Elohim. It's NOT semantic plural but "pseudo-plural",
> a syntactic relic of old etymology which evolved into
> semantic singular, BTW similar to Hebrew "Mitzraim"
> for "Egypt".
> All languages encompass many such constructs:
> "Physics" IS and not ARE. Same for "château", which
> integrates several "castels", "chastels", "châtels"
> into the large fortified structure of "château".
> Similarly and clearly "Elohim" IS (name of) the unique
> God of Genesis and of Abraham.
> Its syntactic plural recalls the bygone pagan
> prehistory, replaced by the monotheism of the unique
> PSEUDO-plural Elohim of the tribes of Israel. It was
> an intuitive monotheism of illiterate nomads, lacking
> any highbrow intellection, but endowed with acute
> emotional sensibility of the desert and its skies.
> It's doubtless the first monotheism ever registered,
> preceding by over thousand years that, highly
> philosophical, of Akhenaton (see below).
> -"Amun Aten" is a complete muddle. Amon was the
> principal of innumerable Egyptian Gods and his priests
> dominated Egypt from their Karnak temple. Aton was the
> Sun God venerated by the rare but most scientific
> priesthood of Heliopolis. Egyptian Akhenaton's
> monotheism inthronized Aton-Sun as (symbol of) the
> unique God and abolished the cult of Amon, along with
> other polytheistic Gods. Thus Amon and Aton were
> implacable enemies and symbols of diametrically
> opposed views and attitudes.
> Following comments are mainly anchored in Freud's
> "The man Moses and the monotheistic religion", but
> occasionally go beyond it.
> At Moses time, Israelites were considered in Egypt as
> tough desert warriors and were assigned to protect the
> rugged Nubian frontier. They brought to Egypt their
> intuitive monotheism which did not radiate beyond
> their own collectivity.
> Moses (Egyptian for "man" found in Ra-Mses - Man of Ra,
> Tut-Mosis - Man of Toth) was an Egyptian nobleman, a
> bastard of a royal princess brought up as Pharaoh's
> courtier to become a tough warrior.
> The current Pharaoh crowned as Amenhotep IV (Glory of
> Amon) turned away from polytheism and from the cult of
> Amon, embracing and imposing the cult of the unique
> God Aton symbolized by the sun. He changed his name to
> Akhenaton (Glory of Aton), ordered the desttruction
> of Amon temples and the construction of the new
> capital, the Akhetaten ('Horizon of Aton'), at the
> site known today as Amarna. One refers sometimes to
> the short Atonian domination as to the "Amarna period".
> We know the impact of our Renaissance which shattered
> the stilted Middle Age conventions in favor of human
> suppleness. Now, while our MA conventions were fixed
> during a few hundred years, the Egyptian lasted
> several thousand and the ideological break was
> incomparably deeper. Although it lasted ony a few
> decades, it was IMO the deepest Renaissance-type
> revolution in the history.
> Amarna was not only religion. In the cruel, tyrannic
> world it preached the rule of Love. "Aton is Love and
> we cherish Him by loving all and sundry". Loving in
> equality: "Aton's rays bless the last of slaves and
> the king alike". And this deepest Renaissance sparked
> an unequalled outburst of art. No wonder that Aton
> adherents were committed to Him with their lives.
> The leading one was Moses.
> After a few decades Amarna succumbed under the
> devastating genocidal blows of Amon's reaction
> embodied by the army of Horemheb who inthronized the
> child Tutankhamon, (Living Image of Amon), in
> anticipation of becoming himself the Pharaoh.
> Moses assisted by a handful of noblemen true to
> Akhenaton's testament decided to save Aton's
> monotheism at the head of likewise monotheistic
> Israelite warriors yearning for exody of Egypt towards
> their homeland.
> First steps of this Exodus led through Midian, where
> Moses had a staunch ally, his father-in-law Yethro,
> the head of Midian and the chief priest of Midian's
> deity named Yahve. Yahve was a martial and cruel God
> of volcanoes commanding the laws of vengeance, "tooth
> for tooth", "eye for eye". Yethro assisted Moses in
> submitting disordered Israelites to Yahve's laws and
> in improving his miltary tactics.
> Yahve got incorporated in the Israelite cult. Not as
> another God - they were and stayed monotheist -, but
> as another aspect of the unique God. Elohim's Genesis-
> Creator's aspect got completed with Yahve's aspect of
> Justice. Let's say en passant that orthodox Jews
> refuse to admit that their "Yahve" was formed upon a
> crude pagan deity and endeavor to interpret Him as an
> acronym abbreviating some very mysterious concepts.
> Yet, whatever their verbal contortions, the fact
> remains that "Yahve" is an import from the crude
> Midian cult.
> But what about Aton, the active cause of Exodus? He
> has been incorporated later, after the Hebrews have
> reached the Promised Land, when Yahve's martial law
> could be released. His inclusion gave the final touch
> to the Jewishness. Before considering His ideological
> bestowal, we shall shortly recall the linguistic
> transformations of the Egyptian "Aton" into its Hebrew
> versions.
> The voiceless "t" of Aton slipped into the voiced "d"
> and Aton in its new garb of "Adon" became a current
> term of vernacular and hieratic Hebrew with its three
> most common inflections:
> 1.Adon - mister or sir,
> 2.Adoni - (short od "adon shel li" - my mister/sir)
> vocative (Dear)Sir,
> 3.Adonai - (archaic and hieratic pseudo-plural of Adoni,
> reserved for God) - My Lord.
> Similarity of Akhenaton's Great Hymn to Aton and
> Salomon's Hymn to Adonai, preserved as Psalm 104,
> manifests on the one hand Aton's being the bedrock of
> Adonai and, on the other hand their shared nature of
> Love.
> We are now in a position to bring up the essential
> aspects of the Jewish God with the names symbolizing
> them:
> BTW, one can hardly avid noticing the analogy of these
> three aspects of the Jewish God with the Christian
> Trinity:
> Elohim - Creativeness - the Father,
> Yahve - Justice - the Spirit,
> Adonai - Love - the Son.
> On the face of it it seems that Christianity had the
> chance to become a renewed Jewishness, a humane
> ideology of Creativeness, of Justice and of Love.
Tell than to the people's of Sodom and G, Jericho, and the
Palestinians and any other the others that Jews shunned and excluded
from their little club of fascists.
> Yet, it forfeited it and became instead one of the
> most inhumane ideologies of ravage, of injustice and
> of hatred.
What more so than Judaism? I think not! Injustice is enshrined in the
core beliefs of Judaism, at least SOME Christians pay lip service to
charity and justice.
--- On Tue, 7/1/08, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> > Subject: [epistemology 8855] Re: Nothing SHOCKING (Chazwin et Al) > To: "Epistemology" <epistemology@googlegroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 12:15 AM > Oh interesting. > But thank fuck Christianity did not completely model itself > on > Judaism. Christianity is violent and bigoted enough without > that kind > of exclusive, aggressive, racist crap eh?
==================== G: Judging by your post it really is. Georges. ====================
> From: AMA <andalibmed...@gmail.com> > Subject: [epistemology 8854] Re: Nothing SHOCKING (Chazwin et Al) > To: "Epistemology" <epistemology@googlegroups.com> > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 9:13 PM > Thank you Georges. This is the kind of Answer that we were > expecting > from you.
> Criticising, full of knowledge, Georgeful !
> Is it important to mention that every representation or > historic fact > about that "Amarna period" was destroyed or > hidden right after the > murder of Tuth-ankh-amun, who was said to be originally > Tuth-ankh- > atun.
> This "accidental death" of an 18 years old Pharao > marked the return to > polytheism.
> May be we shall forget that "Yahoo stuff".
=============== G: Thanks, Nice to talk for a change to somebody civilised and knowing what he is talking about. As to the drab post-Amarna period, I'm rather interested by the enigma of Smenkhare. Some affirm that it was a disguise of Nefertiti, who would have taken up the torch dropped from her dead man's hand. Others pretend that she had an affaire with Horemheb and that they have both eliminated Akhenaton. I dismiss the latter for purely sentimental reasons. Since my childhood I entertained a secret affection for Nefertiti and simply cannot see her as lover and accomplice of this Egyptian Beria. Cheers Georges ===============
> On Jun 29, 7:10 pm, Georges Metanomski > <zg...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > --- On Wed, 6/25/08, chazwin > <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > From: chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> > > > Subject: [epistemology 8841] Re: FACT SHOCKING > BUT TRUE > > > To: "Epistemology" > <epistemology@googlegroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 9:29 PM > > > A more shocking fact that I learned from a Jew, > was that > > > before > > > yahoowahoo, there was the "Elohim", > always > > > referred to in the plural, > > > the gods that preceeded the "one and > only" > > > Jahovah or yahoo. This was, > > > he said, clear testament to the polytheism of the > Jewish > > > people before > > > the adoption and modification of the first > recorded > > > monotheism of > > > Egypt, Amun Aten.
> > ======================= > > G: > > There is a Jewish saying "Nothing is stupider > than a > > stupid Jew". You had the misfortune to bump into > one > > and, what's worse, to take him seriously. I'll > trash > > his idiocies and comment your conclusions, all wrong, > > but pointing to thrilling issues. Let's take it > detail > > by detail.
> > -yahoowahoo, There ain't no sich animal. Your > stupid > > Jew probably meant(?) Yahve, which would be anyway > > totally displaced in this context (see below).
> > -Elohim. It's NOT semantic plural but > "pseudo-plural", > > a syntactic relic of old etymology which evolved into > > semantic singular, BTW similar to Hebrew > "Mitzraim" > > for "Egypt".
> > All languages encompass many such constructs: > > "Physics" IS and not ARE. Same for > "château", which > > integrates several "castels", > "chastels", "châtels" > > into the large fortified structure of > "château". > > Similarly and clearly "Elohim" IS (name of) > the unique > > God of Genesis and of Abraham. > > Its syntactic plural recalls the bygone pagan > > prehistory, replaced by the monotheism of the unique > > PSEUDO-plural Elohim of the tribes of Israel. It was > > an intuitive monotheism of illiterate nomads, lacking > > any highbrow intellection, but endowed with acute > > emotional sensibility of the desert and its skies. > > It's doubtless the first monotheism ever > registered, > > preceding by over thousand years that, highly > > philosophical, of Akhenaton (see below).
> > -"Amun Aten" is a complete muddle. Amon was > the > > principal of innumerable Egyptian Gods and his priests > > dominated Egypt from their Karnak temple. Aton was the > > Sun God venerated by the rare but most scientific > > priesthood of Heliopolis. Egyptian Akhenaton's > > monotheism inthronized Aton-Sun as (symbol of) the > > unique God and abolished the cult of Amon, along with > > other polytheistic Gods. Thus Amon and Aton were > > implacable enemies and symbols of diametrically > > opposed views and attitudes.
> > Following comments are mainly anchored in Freud's > > "The man Moses and the monotheistic > religion", but > > occasionally go beyond it.
> > At Moses time, Israelites were considered in Egypt as > > tough desert warriors and were assigned to protect the > > rugged Nubian frontier. They brought to Egypt their > > intuitive monotheism which did not radiate beyond > > their own collectivity.
> > Moses (Egyptian for "man" found in Ra-Mses - > Man of Ra, > > Tut-Mosis - Man of Toth) was an Egyptian nobleman, a > > bastard of a royal princess brought up as > Pharaoh's > > courtier to become a tough warrior.
> > The current Pharaoh crowned as Amenhotep IV (Glory of > > Amon) turned away from polytheism and from the cult of > > Amon, embracing and imposing the cult of the unique > > God Aton symbolized by the sun. He changed his name to > > Akhenaton (Glory of Aton), ordered the desttruction > > of Amon temples and the construction of the new > > capital, the Akhetaten ('Horizon of Aton'), > at the > > site known today as Amarna. One refers sometimes to > > the short Atonian domination as to the "Amarna > period". > > We know the impact of our Renaissance which shattered > > the stilted Middle Age conventions in favor of human > > suppleness. Now, while our MA conventions were fixed > > during a few hundred years, the Egyptian lasted > > several thousand and the ideological break was > > incomparably deeper. Although it lasted ony a few > > decades, it was IMO the deepest Renaissance-type > > revolution in the history.
> > Amarna was not only religion. In the cruel, tyrannic > > world it preached the rule of Love. "Aton is Love > and > > we cherish Him by loving all and sundry". Loving > in > > equality: "Aton's rays bless the last of > slaves and > > the king alike". And this deepest Renaissance > sparked > > an unequalled outburst of art. No wonder that Aton > > adherents were committed to Him with their lives. > > The leading one was Moses.
> > After a few decades Amarna succumbed under the > > devastating genocidal blows of Amon's reaction > > embodied by the army of Horemheb who inthronized the > > child Tutankhamon, (Living Image of Amon), in > > anticipation of becoming himself the Pharaoh.
> > Moses assisted by a handful of noblemen true to > > Akhenaton's testament decided to save Aton's > > monotheism at the head of likewise monotheistic > > Israelite warriors yearning for exody of Egypt towards > > their homeland.
> > First steps of this Exodus led through Midian, where > > Moses had a staunch ally, his father-in-law Yethro, > > the head of Midian and the chief priest of > Midian's > > deity named Yahve. Yahve was a martial and cruel God > > of volcanoes commanding the laws of vengeance, > "tooth > > for tooth", "eye for eye". Yethro > assisted Moses in > > submitting disordered Israelites to Yahve's laws > and > > in improving his miltary tactics. > > Yahve got incorporated in the Israelite cult. Not as > > another God - they were and stayed monotheist -, but > > as another aspect of the unique God. Elohim's > Genesis- > > Creator's aspect got completed with Yahve's > aspect of > > Justice. Let's say en passant that orthodox Jews > > refuse to admit that their "Yahve" was > formed upon a > > crude pagan deity and endeavor to interpret Him as an > > acronym abbreviating some very mysterious concepts. > > Yet, whatever their verbal contortions, the fact > > remains that "Yahve" is an import from the > crude > > Midian cult.
> > But what about Aton, the active cause of Exodus? He > > has been incorporated later, after the Hebrews have > > reached the Promised Land, when Yahve's martial > law > > could be released. His inclusion gave the final touch > > to the Jewishness. Before considering His ideological > > bestowal, we shall shortly recall the linguistic > > transformations of the Egyptian "Aton" into > its Hebrew > > versions.
> > The voiceless "t" of Aton slipped into the > voiced "d" > > and Aton in its new garb of "Adon" became a > current > > term of vernacular and hieratic Hebrew with its three > > most common inflections:
> > 1.Adon - mister or sir, > > 2.Adoni - (short od "adon shel li" - my > mister/sir) > > vocative (Dear)Sir, > > 3.Adonai - (archaic and hieratic pseudo-plural of > Adoni, > > reserved for God) - My Lord.
> > Similarity of Akhenaton's Great Hymn to Aton and > > Salomon's Hymn to Adonai, preserved as Psalm 104, > > manifests on the one hand Aton's being the bedrock > of > > Adonai and, on the other hand their shared nature of > > Love.
> > We are now in a position to bring up the essential > > aspects of the Jewish God with the names symbolizing > > them:
> > BTW, one can hardly avid noticing the analogy of these > > three aspects of the Jewish God with the Christian > > Trinity:
> > Elohim - Creativeness - the Father, > > Yahve - Justice - the Spirit, > > Adonai - Love - the Son.
> > On the face of it it seems that Christianity had the > > chance to become a renewed Jewishness, a humane > > ideology of Creativeness, of Justice and of Love. > > Yet, it forfeited it and became instead one of the > > most inhumane ideologies of ravage, of injustice and > > of hatred. I endeavor to explain the reasons thereof > > in > > "SON 0F MAN Fraudulent bedrock of our > civilization"
> --- On Tue, 7/1/08, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From: chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [epistemology 8855] Re: Nothing SHOCKING (Chazwin et Al)
> > To: "Epistemology" <epistemology@googlegroups.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 12:15 AM
> > Oh interesting.
> > But thank fuck Christianity did not completely model itself
> > on
> > Judaism. Christianity is violent and bigoted enough without
> > that kind
> > of exclusive, aggressive, racist crap eh?
> ====================
> G:
> Judging by your post it really is.
> Georges.
> ====================
